Curse

Fluim · Dec 05, 2006, 09:43 AM // 09:43

/signed definately

They should make it as easy as getting all other heroes, just complete 1 single quest, not this quest divided in 4 parts, which you can't even hench.

fgarvin · Dec 05, 2006, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenagalaz

yay for popups

Yeah, wth, they don't even leave a hole in the ground....

Lucifer PVP · Dec 05, 2006, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

I

...all this comes down to, is that people want Razah or a ritualist Hero to look cool, and they cant be bothered to work for him.

Its like a kid in a store crying that he cant have his sweets now, and his mother is telling him "after dinner".

Agree

draxynnic · Dec 05, 2006, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer PVP

Fine i really don't care... The main issue is the amount of people complaining before they even really try. That is the whole point. 12 hours isn't alot of time to get one hero that is in the elite mission granted it is a factions hero.

Multiply that by the number of characters you have, and it adds up. Add in the time you spend trying to get groups if some of those characters are professions that have difficulty being accepted by PUGS, and it adds up even more.

freakedoutfish: This is probably where the question of how rapidly the gems dropped came about - a few pages ago, I asked what the drop rate was, thinking that if it was decent you could possibly take a high-demand profession through multiple runs in order to get Razah for lower-demand characters. Given that, as far as I know, the 'complete DoA' quest can only be done once per character, the drop rate does become important for anyone intending to use one character to subsidise another in this way.

Effendi Westland · Dec 05, 2006, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Some people cannot post their opinion and leave it be but have to argue with anyone who do not share their opinion.

I'll just /sign the OP.

freekedoutfish · Dec 05, 2006, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Multiply that by the number of characters you have, and it adds up. Add in the time you spend trying to get groups if some of those characters are professions that have difficulty being accepted by PUGS, and it adds up even more.

freakedoutfish: This is probably where the question of how rapidly the gems dropped came about - a few pages ago, I asked what the drop rate was, thinking that if it was decent you could possibly take a high-demand profession through multiple runs in order to get Razah for lower-demand characters. Given that, as far as I know, the 'complete DoA' quest can only be done once per character, the drop rate does become important for anyone intending to use one character to subsidise another in this way.

"Once you do that quest, THEN any you need to farm the gems in order to exchange for weapons or armor or what-ever else."

Im pretty sure I said that, in perhaps not very clear words.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer PVP

Fine i really don't care... The main issue is the amount of people complaining before they even really try. That is the whole point. 12 hours isn't alot of time to get one hero that is in the elite mission granted it is a factions hero.

Its 12 hours to complet DoA now? It was said to be 6 hours before. Where do people get these huge numbers from.

This is why people are thinking DoA is too much work for one Hero, because everyones exagerating how long it'l take to do.

Lucifer PVP · Dec 05, 2006, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

"Once you do that quest, THEN any you need to farm the gems in order to exchange for weapons or armor or what-ever else."

Im pretty sure I said that, in perhaps not very clear words.

Its 12 hours to complet DoA now? It was said to be 6 hours before. Where do people get these huge numbers from.

This is why people are thinking DoA is too much work for one Hero, because everyones exagerating how long it'l take to do.

i didn't say to complete DOA i meant for gem farming if someone beat all of DOA in six hours which i don't think is possible GG more like 8ish. 12 hours was between chest running and killing random mobs checking this place out. ATM i have a total of 6 gems just missing the titan which refuse to drop.

Razah is only 4 gems ...

Everyone is missing the point of this thread ... Razah is reasonable to get.

birdfoot · Dec 05, 2006, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer PVP

i didn't say to complete DOA i meant for gem farming if someone beat all of DOA in six hours which i don't think is possible GG more like 8ish. 12 hours was between chest running and killing random mobs checking this place out. ATM i have a total of 6 gems just missing the titan which refuse to drop.

Razah is only 4 gems ...

Everyone is missing the point of this thread ... Razah is reasonable to get.

I think you're missing the point of this thread.

Turel2 · Dec 05, 2006, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effendi Westland

Some people cannot post their opinion and leave it be but have to argue with anyone who do not share their opinion.

you took the words out of my mouth.

freekedoutfish · Dec 05, 2006, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer PVP

i didn't say to complete DOA i meant for gem farming if someone beat all of DOA in six hours which i don't think is possible GG more like 8ish. 12 hours was between chest running and killing random mobs checking this place out. ATM i have a total of 6 gems just missing the titan which refuse to drop.

Razah is only 4 gems ...

Everyone is missing the point of this thread ... Razah is reasonable to get.

12 hours to farm gems, when you dont need to?

Your given the 4 gems when you complete DoA, as part of the quest inside it. That was my point with which ever post it was.

You dont need to spend 12 hours farming the gems unless you choose to use the 4 your given for something else other then Razah. In which case thats your daft fault.

But yes once you get Razah with the 4 your given, you would need to farm more to get a gold weapon or new armor.

But people are on about how accessible Razah is.

So your estimate at 6 hours to complete DoA is more accurate at how long it would take to get Razah, although that still seems long to me.

GloryFox · Dec 05, 2006, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

posted by freekedoutfish
So your estimate at 6 hours to complete DoA is more accurate at how long it would take to get Razah, although that still seems long to me.

Number of character who have beat Nightfall 6 of 9
(Warrior Necromancer Assassin Paragon Dervish Ranger - All skills unlocked or captured for PvE for these classes)

Number of total hours trying to find a competant group for DoA 27, Number of DoA runs that last longer than 1 hour, 2. Average Time it takes to find a group, 2 hours. Average time of death of party joined 5 minutes for total party wipe and I am usualy the last to die. Average team split after total party wipe 15 seconds.

Is it worth it for the average skilled player ....

You do the Math

Esprit · Dec 05, 2006, 04:12 PM // 16:12

The average player will have trouble getting through all of DoA for those four gems. The casual player, who only has 1-2 hours a day to play, will have a tough time getting Razah unlocked... trying to find a group... finding a competant group... setting up... takes out a large portion of their time.

Does it seem fair that because of the difficulty of area, that a average/casual player cannot get a normal Hero? Not to me.

Sure, Anet cannot just cater to the casual players. But we are talking about a Ritualist hero, not a variable hero. What is so elite about the Ritualist hero? What makes Razah so special that only a smaller percentage of the player base can acquire him?

Lucifer PVP · Dec 05, 2006, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdfoot

I think you're missing the point of this thread.

Ok for a rit hero it is a bit much, but Razah is very reasonable to acquire 4 gems drop is a joke compared to what you all are making it out to be.. now even more with the two man farm builds.
http://geocities.com/bj91x/DoA.jpg

Ask yourselve how long it took you to get master of whisper, the mid-heros etc .. 6 -8 hours isn't that big of a deal. Would you just like to appear in your party list without doing anything??

and it is going to take the average player more then 8 hours to beat all the doa quests unless you have a guide

o an i don't care about razah i am going for the Torment Shield 25 of each gem

Horseman Of War · Dec 05, 2006, 06:34 PM // 18:34

i just unlocked him with faction- paragons and dervs arent exactly the #1 needed class in Anguish for sure... even when I do get into a group I am disapointed at peoples' general tendancy to give up after the first party wipe... unfortunately the next closest is my assassin which I assume will be even worse for finding groups there (no LB rank to boot)

so... better go dust off my ele - seems the easiest way to get into a group (and least work required when there for sure)- although I did just get my Mez to Dasha mission... maybe I will start using Mez for more than pvp...

it would be nice to have razah on my pve characters but honestly I think ill be fine with good ol' talkora and olias. Im not too worried about it. I unlocked razah as soon as he was 6k fax.

What I want is a Torment Focus for my IW mez. That would be hawt.

Besides- give it enough time and the gems will be everywhere - with how easy it is to GET to the elite area, there is a LOT more people aquiring them than say Deep or Urgoz rares. Id say a perfect zodiac is worth far more in reality than a stupid torment gem- and anyone paying out their ass for them now is basically shooting themselves in the foot- unless they SERIOUSLY cant hack anguish (not that I claim to be doing well yet - a few more LB ranks should do it square)

Drewfense · Dec 05, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Number of total hours trying to find a competant group for DoA 27, Number of DoA runs that last longer than 1 hour, 2. Average Time it takes to find a group, 2 hours. Average time of death of party joined 5 minutes for total party wipe and I am usualy the last to die. Average team split after total party wipe 15 seconds.

Is it worth it for the average skilled player ....

You do the Math

Your missing the point. The "average skilled player" on this thread is someone who has leeched their way through prophecies. Then they leeched their way through factions and now that they are done leeching their way through nightfall want to leech their way through DoA. The "average skills player" is an expert at loading a template with barrage and a pet on his bar. They are incapable of creating their own builds, much less a team build so they look to join someone elses group. Since there isn't an easy plan yet to beat DoA, the groups have no one to lead them and have no chance.

If you want to beat DoA and get your little rit hero, take initiative. I remember the first week of factions, XoO randomly let in a couple dozen random people from HzH. I knew none of the people and the majority of them sucked, but we started playing Urgoz every night. We developed a team build and were one of the first people to beat Urgoz. Several members of the party sold their longbows for over a million.

So you have a choice, you can either wait a month for an easy template for you to download of wiki and C+Space or you can make the template yourself. It isn't horribly time taking with Urgoz the majority of our group were part time players (we had 2 euros who would play during their work break

). Anet making missions of this difficulty are not to screw over casual players. Rather it is to reward good players with initiative. They will be the first to get the new items/armors/et cetera. Eveyone else will get them, they just wont get them first.

Seperating players based on skill, a hard concept for PvE ers.

Darkobra · Dec 05, 2006, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neriandal Freit

Do not lecture me newcomer. I've been on these boards for a full year and have made many posts. I know when something is more of a minority then a majority.

I will give you what you have said. I do not have facts showing the minority, just my personal observation of the Guru Forums for a year and months time.

Loving the arrogance there. Let me lecture you. You seem to need it. Now I want you to read this carefully. When you say that something or some one is a majority or minority, FACT is usually involved. Not PERCEPTION. Now you compared Pokemon to Guild Wars with the exception being "The good guy wins in the end". Did you not SEE THE ENDING OF THE PAST THREE GAMES?! Making many posts of irrelevance is far inferior to the one post that this "newcomer" made and actually outsmarted you. Where is your poll, survey or evidence that these people are a minority? I will ask you one more time. Read through the thread. Take notes of those for and those against. You will have an insight to who the true minority truly is.

Well99 · Dec 05, 2006, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

Your missing the point. The "average skilled player" on this thread is someone who has leeched their way through prophecies. Then they leeched their way through factions and now that they are done leeching their way through nightfall want to leech their way through DoA. The "average skills player" is an expert at loading a template with barrage and a pet on his bar. They are incapable of creating their own builds, much less a team build so they look to join someone elses group. Since there isn't an easy plan yet to beat DoA, the groups have no one to lead them and have no chance.

If you want to beat DoA and get your little rit hero, take initiative. I remember the first week of factions, XoO randomly let in a couple dozen random people from HzH. I knew none of the people and the majority of them sucked, but we started playing Urgoz every night. We developed a team build and were one of the first people to beat Urgoz. Several members of the party sold their longbows for over a million.

So you have a choice, you can either wait a month for an easy template for you to download of wiki and C+Space or you can make the template yourself. It isn't horribly time taking with Urgoz the majority of our group were part time players (we had 2 euros who would play during their work break

). Anet making missions of this difficulty are not to screw over casual players. Rather it is to reward good players with initiative. They will be the first to get the new items/armors/et cetera. Eveyone else will get them, they just wont get them first.

Seperating players based on skill, a hard concept for PvE ers.

Do you have stats to back up these statements?Seems like folks throw stuff out there and because they believe it true it must be.
I see opinions like this but try not judge all by it.Maybe your confuseing your methods of going thru the game with others.
I hero/henched my way all the way threw NF and most of Factions.First I wanted to see if it could be done.Second because of people like you.
There is nothing like going thru a mission with a good pug.People that work together...let me repeat that..people that work together....Priceless

Jimmy McDoodle · Dec 05, 2006, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_T_bot

I wouldn't agree, except for the fact within a month no one but the confirmed working cookie cutter will even be able to get into the area to try and to the quests to try and get him and after a month the population of the area will be less than a fraction of what it is now.

100% agree.
How many people bother doing Tombs (PUGs, mind) outside of Barrage/Pet groups?

Zehnchu · Dec 05, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer PVP

Fine i really don't care... The main issue is the amount of people complaining before they even really try.

And just how do you know all these people haven’t tried? Speculation does not equal facts if you have really been reading what other people post you would see that this is the opposite of your statement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer PVP

That is the whole point. 12 hours isn't alot of time to get one hero that is in the elite mission granted it is a factions hero

That is your reason of thinking, however you assume other people have that much time to spare. You also use the basic rhythmic time calculations four hours to complete a quest would take four days. This reasoning of thinking is flawed due to many other unseen complications which can either shorten or add time to take to complete. My hypothesis is that the casual players who make up the majority of the community do not have that much time to spend a day. So really it’s not the point at all it’s only your point of view.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer PVP

And as attacking people that see things different that I ... ya I will attack people that whine,

Your only purpose here is it to disrupt, flame, and insult people who have a different opinion. Let me see if I get this straight, its ok for you to “whine” but not ok for anyone else thus you feel you should attack them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer PVP

they are the people that force Anet to Nerf the only enjoyable areas of the game.

Obtaining Razah isn’t nerfing an area. Plus running the basic wammo farming cookie cutter build isn’t challenging. So by this people who call for nerfing of skills are “whiners”.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer PVP

You are not forced to get the Hero or finish the quests

Actuality if you want the Ritualist hero you are forced to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer PVP

so stop with these childish attacks.

Don’t flatter yourself, you would know the difference if I were.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer PVP

Somehow you changed from my issue with people wanting the last hero given to them to your issue with him being a Rit.

No, you made full clear in this post what your issues truly are. Read your quotes above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer PVP

If your complaint is with Razah being a Rit go start another thread.

You should follow your own advice.

Drewfense · Dec 05, 2006, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Well99

Do you have stats to back up these statements?Seems like folks throw stuff out there and because they believe it true it must be.
I see opinions like this but try not judge all by it.Maybe your confuseing your methods of going thru the game with others.
I hero/henched my way all the way threw NF and most of Factions.First I wanted to see if it could be done.Second because of people like you.
There is nothing like going thru a mission with a good pug.People that work together...let me repeat that..people that work together....Priceless

Just shifting through old screenies. The attached one was taken one of the first times we reached Urgoz, it is dated May 18th (about the second week of factions?) so we first started playing a week earlier. I say one of the first because I don't remember a couple people being in the party the first time we got their. /fond memories btw, a later version of that prot bar (which included Spirit Bond back when it was broken) was one of my favorite bars ever to play =) but we ended up replacing it with a ritualist for ease to play and the benefit of using non-spell protection.

I think it wasn't till our third time to get there that we actually killed him. Till the free admit week, we played almost every night and were able to beat the mission routinly in 2.5 hours using a balanced team.

It is hard to come up with actual evidence, but below is a link taken by one of the participants on some of the times he came along. There are 6 wins in there, but most are later on.

http://www.jaldus.com/ade/gw/farm/farm.html

I don't know if there is a way to pull up old auction files, but I sold the longbow for 700k. Regretfully I was one of the later ones in the group to get one so it didnt sell for a lot.

What other evidence to show off my epeen with /scratch chin. We tried numerous things to kill Urgoz before we found out EoE worked (it was initially a joke, but was a pleasant surprise). Urgoz's attack can not be diverted, he is immune to thievery skills, and can not be blacked out. Not to many people know about immunity to blackout which is probably a good thing.

OOOh I know. Ultimate evidence, I know what ORARY is. If that doesn't make sense to you, there is a reason why

The devs accidently labeled something ORARY and corrected it soon after release, but I will leave that to be a little secret among those who could stomach Urgoz early on. Trust me, if you made any significant progress in the warren even in the first month after release, you would know what ORARY is.

Back to your post, I enjoy henchies too and do most things with hench. I got a r3 survivor by using only henchies for prophecies and factions. Henchies are underestimated and it is fun to just pick up and go, but it is also nice to have areas of the game which are challenging enough to require team work and creative thought. It is a pleasant alternative to C+Space.